陳驥

近來，我國百科詩派的詩集被諸多國外著名圖書館收藏。百科詩派是當代文壇智庫型詩歌流派，由潛身于文史理工領(lǐng)域的詩歌作者組成，主要從事史詩、長詩、大型系列組詩創(chuàng)作和從內(nèi)容到體裁的實驗。以學(xué)術(shù)、智性、涵容、洞察的姿態(tài)亮相。浙江省有一位作者入選——浙江工商大學(xué)的王自亮教授。王自亮從1978年就讀于杭州大學(xué)中文系時就開始詩歌創(chuàng)作，參加過1982年第二屆“青春詩會”，40年來出版了《狂暴的邊界》《將骰子擲向大海》《岡仁波齊》《渾天儀》等6本個人詩集，發(fā)表了諸多隨筆、詩歌批評、藝術(shù)批評等文字，其詩歌多次獲獎，最近他的長詩《上?！帆@第二屆江南詩歌獎。他的部分詩歌被翻譯成英文和西班牙文。日前，王自亮接受了本刊專訪。以下是采訪問答錄：

問：作為漢語詩人，您是怎么看待漢語詩歌走向世界的？詩人在文化交流中應(yīng)該是個什么樣的角色？

答：站在東西方文化對話與交融的角度，我認為，詩人首先應(yīng)該是個文化使者。為什么這么說呢？因為自新詩誕生以來，漢語詩歌發(fā)展趨勢是與世界文明進程同步的。中國詩人與世界其他國家的詩人一起，既分享自由、進步和變化帶來的好處和開放社會所展示的廣闊文化視野，也承受著社會轉(zhuǎn)型、撞擊和逆襲帶來的痛楚，包括恐怖主義、氣候危機和資源衰竭等。世界文明是個整體，誰也離不開誰，包括詩人在內(nèi)的任何知識界和文化界人士都無法置身事外。早在上個世紀初期，蘇俄著名詩人曼德爾斯塔姆，就以世界文明的使者為己任。這個被稱為“文明的孩子”的人，“喜歡在平凡中創(chuàng)造奇跡，力圖對遠古文明，如古希臘、古埃及、古印度等文化的積淀進行綜合，系統(tǒng)地研究和探索它們之間深層的聯(lián)系，把時間當作空間的第四維度，通過對歷史、神話的朦朧回憶，來領(lǐng)悟現(xiàn)實的生活，追求石頭般可感可觸的冷靜、堅硬與持久，在對歷史的詞語中實現(xiàn)自我的精神還原”。[1]按照著名詩人布羅茨基的說法，“不是說曼德爾斯塔姆是一個‘文明化的人；不如說，他是為文明和屬于文明的人。有一次他被要求解釋他所屬的文學(xué)運動阿克梅派的定義，他回答說：‘對一種世界文化的鄉(xiāng)愁?！盵2]依我的理解，世界文化的使者，實際上所做就是從整體上傳承、反思和揚棄文明社會的諸多事物，包括人和物質(zhì)、生活與精神、回歸和進化；與此同時，在傳播思想文化、探索藝術(shù)形式和超越現(xiàn)時代狀態(tài)等方面，做出應(yīng)該有的藝術(shù)奉獻，同時對人性、心靈和自我，作出詩人的追尋和回答。當然，這一切都應(yīng)該是通過語言、潛意識和象征等現(xiàn)代后現(xiàn)代藝術(shù)探究，并通過詩歌文本和文學(xué)活動來達致目標。即使是那些標榜“唯美”和“詩到語言為止”的詩人和詩歌批評家，也希圖與更大范疇的“他者”交流，并傳播自己的文學(xué)觀念、審美意識和文本，并沒有一刻停止過企圖獲得讀者或同行的理解。傳播、接受、闡釋、理解和對話，就是文化使者要做的工作。詩人作為文化使者，是“盜火者”、思索者、預(yù)言者，更是個超越者。

問：您參加過哪些詩歌活動，與國際詩人有過交流嗎？您覺得近些年中國詩人與國際詩人之間的交流形式和內(nèi)容有什么特點？

答：我最近幾年與國際詩人的交流主要還是在國內(nèi)詩歌活動中，如唐曉渡、楊煉主持的“國際詩人揚州瘦西湖虹橋修契”、楊煉主持的“上海國際詩歌節(jié)”、北島主辦的“香港詩歌之夜杭州站”等。在活動中我認識了不少國際著名詩人和批評家，交流也很順暢，對詩人、詩歌文本和詩學(xué)問題的探討很深入。印象特別深刻的是2016年參加“國際詩人揚州瘦西湖虹橋修契”活動，當時主辦方邀請了包括我在內(nèi)的6位漢語詩人，也邀請6位西班牙語詩人?；顒咏柚袊鴤鹘y(tǒng)詩歌文化活動的形式——虹橋修契，同時植入國際詩歌元素，以傳統(tǒng)修契、詩歌朗誦、對譯切磋、詩學(xué)研討、中外詩人對話等形式，將國際詩人之間的交流推進到一個新穎、精到和多樣的境地。我的一首發(fā)表于1986年的詩歌，叫《舟欲行時》，由著名翻譯家趙振江先生翻譯成西班牙語，而西班牙語詩人胡安·卡洛斯·梅斯特雷拿出自己的詩歌《大象墓地》漢譯本，進行漢語-西班牙語對譯，逐字推敲，整體觀照，從用詞、詩藝、意象和有機構(gòu)成等角度，都做了詳盡的探究。我不懂西班牙語，胡安·卡洛斯·梅斯特雷也不懂漢語，但有翻譯大家趙振江先生的細致、耐心和周到的傳達，我和這位西班牙語詩人的交流很有效，我們雙方都所獲甚多，有的已經(jīng)轉(zhuǎn)化為一種新的能量和詩學(xué)認知。我本來就很喜歡西班牙語詩歌，以前都通過漢譯，這次是面對面交流，對我認識西班牙語詩歌的特質(zhì)和魅力很有助益。我相信胡安·卡洛斯·梅斯特雷也會對漢語詩歌有新的感受。

問：聽說您和國內(nèi)其他一些優(yōu)秀詩人的詩集被好多國家圖書館所廣泛收藏，能否介紹一下這件事的基本情況？

答：自2017年6月起至2018年3月為止，我和百科詩派其他成員的詩集，已相繼被美國、英國、俄羅斯、新西蘭、德國、荷蘭、愛爾蘭、法國、墨西哥、芬蘭、新加坡、葡萄牙、比利時、奧地利、瑞典、挪威、瑞士、澳大利亞、波蘭、意大利、捷克、加拿大、巴西、智利等一百余家國家級圖書館、世界名校圖書館及大使館收藏。其中包括大英圖書館（英國國家圖書館）、美國國會圖書館及俄羅斯、捷克、挪威、法國的國家圖書館等。收藏頻次最高的是“百科詩派創(chuàng)派十周年年鑒”系列，包括殷曉媛《播云劑》、海上《隱秘圖騰：琥珀星》、山水如歌《潘洛斯階梯上的螞蟻》、浪激天涯《超弦之玄》和我的《渾天儀》。除此之外，還有殷曉媛的長詩“前沿三部曲”、我的《將骰子擲向大?！泛汀秾什R》、向以鮮《我的孔子》《唐詩彌撒曲》、孫謙《人馬座升空》、盤予《光。產(chǎn)卵》、楊政《蒼蠅》等，以及百科詩派獨立設(shè)計的“2018人工智能紙魔方”。在這里要特意介紹一下這個包含6國語言的“魔方”：每一頁使用86種源自大和色譜精選標準色彩，介紹100位對百科詩派寫作影響最大的世界級大師，可掃碼閱讀70條來自《科學(xué)》《自然》《細胞》《國家地理》《福布斯》《今日美國》等全球頂級雜志的前沿新聞，還暗藏72個代表人類史上標志性歷史日期的二進制碼。這是百科詩派跨界探索的成果之一。眾多收藏機構(gòu)對百科詩派給以極高的評價。俄羅斯國家圖書館采編部部長T.V.彼得魯先科先生，將百科詩派著作譽為“橫貫當代中國詩壇的百科詩學(xué)主義之強流”；多米尼加國家圖書館館藏發(fā)展部部長Glennys Reyes Tapia則稱百科詩派著作為“博大文化代表、書志編纂研究瑰寶”?！鞍倏圃娕蓜?chuàng)派十周年年鑒”是這一流派在重構(gòu)諸多學(xué)科的跨文體、多語言先鋒寫作嘗試中的重大事件之一。百科詩派成員還受邀參加法國文化部贊助的“詩人之春”（Le Printemps des Poètes）等國際詩歌活動，以及獨立翻譯20世紀最著名的建筑大師、“功能主義之父”勒·柯布西耶詩集《直角之詩》。2018年1月，包括我的詩集《渾天儀》在內(nèi)的“百科詩派創(chuàng)派十周年年鑒”圖書，在位于巴黎第三區(qū)Boulevard de Sébastopol 72號La librairie le Phénix（鳳凰書店）正式發(fā)售。

問：您的詩歌翻譯成外語的情況如何？有無出版計劃？

答：我的詩歌，有一部分已經(jīng)翻譯成英語和西班牙語。其中詩人、翻譯家阿九、殷曉媛出力甚多。我的詩歌英譯工作還在進行中。詩人、著名翻譯家海岸也準備翻譯我的另一部分詩歌。我們還會找一些英語國家的漢學(xué)家、詩人，來對我的詩歌英譯本進行潤色和訂正。我打算在今明兩年內(nèi)，出一本自己的漢英雙語詩選。今后還會出英譯詩集，特別是爭取讓國外的出版社出我的詩集。我會與翻譯家們共同合作，把這件有意義的事做好。在國際文化交流過程中，翻譯起到的作用居功厥偉。當代漢語詩歌走向世界任重道遠，我們應(yīng)當加倍努力。

Recent years saw the powerful rise of ‘encyclopedic poetry in the literary world of China. “Encyclopaedism”， which has been turned into an ideological trend of contemporary Chinese poetry， emphasizes elitism， intellectualism， comprehensiveness， intertextuality and multiculturalism. Founded by epic poet Yin Xiaoyuan in 2007 and supported by an independent， freelance literary group， the new trend is often mentioned as “avant-garde” and experimental. The members of the ‘club include maverick， innovative， tradition-defying epic poets， novelists and trans-genre writers engaged in “encyclopaedism” experiments in themes， styles and techniques. All these people are meanwhile experts in arts or science as their social identities. One of the key members is Wang Ziliang， whose passion in poetry writing was lit up in his undergraduate years in the Chinese Department of Hangzhou University four decades ago. Having published six poetry collections and seen many of his works translated into English and Spanish， he recently won an award at the 2nd Jiangnan Poetry Competition for his long poem .

The following is a summary of a question & answer session between Cultural Dialogue and Wang.

Q： What are your thoughts about the position of the Chinese poetry in the global literary arena？ And what role do you think the Chinese poets should play？

A： From the perspective of east-and-west cultural communication， first of all， a poet should be a cultural ambassador. The development of modern Chinese poetry since its birthday has been running synchronously with the worlds civilization progress. Poets worldwide have been sharing the benefits of all the social progresses that have taken place as well as the accompanying sufferings such as terrorism， climate crisis and resource depletion. In fact， no one living in this world can stay aloof from the affair. Osip Mandelshtam， one of the foremost members of the Acmeist school of poets， dedicated his life to such a role， working wonders from triviality and painstakingly exploring deeper connections between different cultures. Time， in his eyes， was the fourth dimension of the world. He spent his lifetime making connections with history to see the truth of reality and return to his spiritual roots. Acmeism， or the Guild of Poets， is “a reminiscence of the world culture”， Joseph Brodsky， a Russian and American poet and essayist， once pointed out when asked to explain the mission of the transient poetic school.

As far as I can understand， the nucleus of the responsibilities of a cultural ambassador is to inherit， reflect and sublate， and to pursue the ultimate answers about human nature. All this cannot be realized without the function of postmodernist art that takes the form of languages， subconscious and symbolism. In this process， poetry and literary activities play a critical role. Even the extremists among poets and critics are eager to express， communicate and be understood by readers and peers. In a word， the duty of a cultural ambassador is to talk with the world. A poet is a fire stealer， a predictor， a thinker and a transcender.

Q： How do you feel about your communication with poets from other countries？

A： Most of such communication in recent years was from activities I took part in China， such as the international poetry festivals in Yangzhou， Shanghai and Hangzhou. I made a lot of new like-minded friends， and the communication was smooth and inspiring. I was one of the six Chinese poets taking part in the Yangzhou gathering that also drew participation from six Spanish-speaking poets. The events elaborately designed traditional Chinese elements added enormous flair to the atmosphere. There was a thrill of ‘dialogue， achieved by a brainstorming session in which Spanish poet and visual artist Juan Carlos Mestre and I enjoyed an inspiring chat with the assistance of the interpretation by famous translator Zhao Zhenjiang. The communication generated new energy and deepened my perception of the art of poetry； and I believe Juan Carlos Mestre felt the same way after the dialogue.

Q： Many collections of works by ‘Encyclopaedists， including several of yours， have been collected by famous libraries worldwide. How do you feel about this？

A： Since June 2017， our works have found their way into world-famous libraries and embassies in more than 100 countries including the British Library， Library of Congress and Bibliothèque Nationale de France. The most heavily collected is the Encyclopaedists Yearbook that includes a cycle of representative works by Encyclopaedists. The yearbook is a new milestone set by Encyclopaedists in their cross-genre， multilingual exploration. A book release ceremony was held at the La librairie le Phénix on Boulevard de Sébastopol in Paris in January 2018. The “2018 AI Rubiks Cube” is also worth mentioning. The elaborately designed multilingual ‘cube introduces 100 world-class masters whose influences shaped encyclopaedists into what they are today. The ‘cube allows the reader to browse 70 news stories from top-notch magazines such as Science， Nature and National Geographic and includes 72 enciphered binary codes that indicate the most important landmarks in human history. “Encyclopaedists” have drawn the attention from the Ministry of Culture of France and took part in a good many international poetry events such as Le Printemps des Poètes. Encyclopaedists were invited to translate Poème de langle Droit， a poem collection by Franco-Swiss architect Le Corbusier， regarded as the founding father of functionalism.

Q： Have you seen many of your works translated into other languages and published？

A： Some of my works have been translated into English and Spanish， for which I owe many thanks to famous translator and poet A Jiu and Yin Xiaoyuan. Translation for some other works is in progress. One of the plans is to work with sinologists and poets in English-speaking countries to polish the translation to get ready for the publishing of a bilingual collection at some point this year or next year. The importance of translators in cross-cultural exchange cannot be overestimated. We still have a long way to go before seeing modern Chinese poetry embraced by a global audience.