人物訪談

Interview with Jurij Sadar / Bo?tjan Vuga

1.您事務(wù)所一貫的設(shè)計(jì)理念和設(shè)計(jì)方法是什么？

我們的建筑作品刻意追求不完美、笨拙、粗獷以及表意不明、不合邏輯的矛盾性。某一個(gè)具體的建筑項(xiàng)目可以同時(shí)兼具紀(jì)念意義和非正式性的特點(diǎn)。

SADAR+VUGA自創(chuàng)立之初即著眼國際市場(chǎng)，盡管如此，事務(wù)所承接的大部分項(xiàng)目仍位于斯洛文尼亞首都盧布爾雅那。我們敢于嘗試不同的建筑設(shè)計(jì)理念及其對(duì)重大城市變化的影響，并且有意識(shí)地放棄形成某種特定的風(fēng)格——某種“標(biāo)簽”。因此，事務(wù)所的項(xiàng)目并未遵循一致的視覺和形式效果及風(fēng)格。每個(gè)項(xiàng)目都是精確解讀整體環(huán)境、規(guī)劃和實(shí)際限制的產(chǎn)物。我們并非簡(jiǎn)單地為預(yù)先設(shè)定好的生活方式設(shè)計(jì)物體和空間，每個(gè)項(xiàng)目都會(huì)重新挑戰(zhàn)我們的認(rèn)知，并為我們帶來新的空間體驗(yàn)。

2.能結(jié)合具體案例談?wù)勀绾螌?shí)踐公私兼顧的設(shè)計(jì)理念？

如何實(shí)現(xiàn)公私兼顧是我們?cè)诠ぷ髦薪?jīng)常需面對(duì)的問題。即使是與私人投資者合作，同樣總是需要談及公共空間，公共空間存在的重要意義是提供一塊共享的開放區(qū)域。在私人項(xiàng)目中，因其存在使用限制，該類區(qū)域被稱作半公共空間。該類半公共空間的具體形式多種多樣，例如廣場(chǎng)、散步長(zhǎng)廊或城市客廳。

3.我們知道您強(qiáng)調(diào)建筑的個(gè)性化，那么如何讓建筑產(chǎn)生特點(diǎn)，同時(shí)贏得用戶的認(rèn)同？

我們從不將承接的項(xiàng)目?jī)H僅視作個(gè)人或事務(wù)所的項(xiàng)目，而是將其視作改變環(huán)境和為世人所談?wù)摰捻?xiàng)目。我們希望得到批判，希望項(xiàng)目不僅僅影響當(dāng)代人和下一代人，同樣影響客戶對(duì)建筑作品的期望。

溝通是整個(gè)規(guī)劃和建筑過程的基礎(chǔ)?？蛻糁苯訁⑴c整個(gè)過程?？蛻袅私馕覀兲岢龅脑O(shè)想，跟進(jìn)項(xiàng)目開發(fā)，并且可以在不同的階段介入。這樣客戶能夠明白應(yīng)當(dāng)作何期望，這很重要，當(dāng)然更為重要的是，客戶明白應(yīng)當(dāng)怎樣利用建筑成果。通過這一作法，我們能夠設(shè)計(jì)出更具個(gè)性化的項(xiàng)目，而倘若客戶不了解或未參與項(xiàng)目，最終的作品必將同質(zhì)化。其實(shí)這一問題的實(shí)質(zhì)是同質(zhì)化和個(gè)性化或特殊化之間的區(qū)別。

4.我們知道您的事務(wù)所成立至今已20年，讓您印象最深刻的項(xiàng)目是哪個(gè)？

首先，我想說明事務(wù)所對(duì)每個(gè)項(xiàng)目都十分重視，每個(gè)項(xiàng)目在設(shè)計(jì)過程中都經(jīng)過專門的探討，有其自身的重要意義。然而，事務(wù)所的成名之作當(dāng)屬斯洛文尼亞工商會(huì)大樓和國家美術(shù)館擴(kuò)建項(xiàng)目。兩個(gè)項(xiàng)目均通過國際公開競(jìng)標(biāo)獲得。因此，事務(wù)所靠高要求的公共項(xiàng)目起家，這在業(yè)內(nèi)并不十分常見。另一方面，Sto?ice體育公園（集足球場(chǎng)、包含大型購物中心的多功能體育館于一體，體育館的設(shè)計(jì)融入娛樂公園的人工景觀元素）等項(xiàng)目因其規(guī)模龐大、項(xiàng)目開發(fā)期長(zhǎng)等復(fù)雜特性，而意義非凡。自1997年在國際公開競(jìng)標(biāo)中中標(biāo)至2010年建成期間，Sto?ice體育公園已被充分投入使用。

然而，在長(zhǎng)達(dá)20年的發(fā)展過程中，事務(wù)所意識(shí)到，要想改變經(jīng)濟(jì)和政治環(huán)境，需要勇于承接不同規(guī)模和類型的項(xiàng)目，同時(shí)靈活理解建筑作品的要求。目前，事務(wù)所的發(fā)展重點(diǎn)放在國際市場(chǎng)。2015年，我們?cè)O(shè)計(jì)了重慶鐵山坪生態(tài)區(qū)別墅項(xiàng)目，目前該項(xiàng)目仍在建設(shè)中。此外，之后獲得的兩個(gè)國際性項(xiàng)目分別為比利時(shí)根特社會(huì)工作研究學(xué)院新大樓（在建）和黑山尼克希奇革命紀(jì)念館改建項(xiàng)目（待實(shí)施）。

5.能向中國的讀者介紹一下您的祖國——斯洛文尼亞的文化，以及設(shè)計(jì)、建筑的發(fā)展現(xiàn)狀嗎？

由于地處意大利和奧地利之間，斯洛文尼亞本國文化的形成深受兩國文化環(huán)境的影響。地中海文化和大陸性文化的交融影響著本國社會(huì)生活的方方面面，其中以對(duì)建筑的影響最為明顯。早前，兩種文化的交融同樣影響著國內(nèi)城市的布局以及我們理解和利用公共空間的方式。氣候環(huán)境是影響建筑風(fēng)格的另一項(xiàng)同等重要的決定性因素。斯洛文尼亞國內(nèi)氣候環(huán)境與眾不同，全國分屬四個(gè)氣候帶：北部阿爾卑斯山高山區(qū)、中部大陸區(qū)、南部毗鄰亞得里亞海的地中海區(qū)和東部潘諾尼亞平原區(qū)。文化的交融和多變的氣候環(huán)境影響著我們每天的生活環(huán)境、日常起居與工作方式。

6.斯洛文尼亞的地域文化如何影響著您的建筑設(shè)計(jì)？

我們的建筑設(shè)計(jì)主要契合國際環(huán)境。我們的設(shè)想和我們通過設(shè)計(jì)所傳遞的理念，解決的是全球建筑設(shè)計(jì)行業(yè)從業(yè)者普遍關(guān)注的問題。我們熱衷于探究私密、半公共和公共，個(gè)人和共有，特殊和普遍等主題，原因在于我們發(fā)現(xiàn)這與當(dāng)代建筑設(shè)計(jì)密切相關(guān)。另一方面，盡管我們不會(huì)僅僅傾向于融入現(xiàn)有環(huán)境之中，但我們?nèi)詴?huì)對(duì)當(dāng)?shù)丨h(huán)境進(jìn)行深入了解。我們的建筑既能融入現(xiàn)有建筑環(huán)境，又具備在多個(gè)方面重建的潛力。建筑物本身所蘊(yùn)藏的不合群潛力為我們的工作提供靈感。建筑如何在提供最優(yōu)空間的同時(shí)改變?nèi)藗兊纳罘绞?，這一問題激勵(lì)著我們不斷進(jìn)行研究。

7.您如何讓建筑融入城市之中？

在過去十五年間，斯洛文尼亞國內(nèi)城市的發(fā)展與中國城市的發(fā)展趨勢(shì)大相徑庭，具體表現(xiàn)在中國城市人口數(shù)目較為穩(wěn)定，城市并未出現(xiàn)明顯擴(kuò)張，因而人口較為分散，地區(qū)發(fā)展相對(duì)同步。隨著人口逐漸涌入城市，人口的持續(xù)增長(zhǎng)本身會(huì)造成復(fù)雜和沖突的城市環(huán)境。相反，在斯洛文尼亞國內(nèi)，城市并無固有特色，建筑師需要通過設(shè)計(jì)新的建筑、優(yōu)化城市布局和交通連通性塑造出城市特色。

8.您的公司也涉及居住建筑，能向我們談?wù)勅绾卧诮ㄖ袑?shí)現(xiàn)詩意棲居？

我們?cè)诰幼〗ㄖぷ髦兄饕P(guān)注居住特點(diǎn)和環(huán)境特質(zhì)。我們?cè)诮ㄖO(shè)計(jì)中考慮的其中一個(gè)問題是建筑如何讓居住者理解和利用其居住的空間，以及讓居住者形成多重身份意識(shí)——城市、社區(qū)、建筑、公寓等。另一個(gè)問題是，如何滿足未來居住者對(duì)空間的適應(yīng)性利用的需要，與形成特定居住環(huán)境的建筑要素相結(jié)合，即如何立即使某個(gè)場(chǎng)所既能符合特定要求，又能靈活適用。此外，居住環(huán)境的營造離不開基本的建筑手法——公寓的大小、分區(qū)、光源的利用和視野方向。

9.在室內(nèi)空間設(shè)計(jì)中，您如何運(yùn)用材料與色彩？

材料與色彩賦予建筑物的特點(diǎn)取決于空間的類型。對(duì)于居住建筑而言，公寓的環(huán)境應(yīng)當(dāng)盡可能保持中性，以便讓居住者留下個(gè)人印記。與此相反，我們此前開發(fā)的酒店、體育館、學(xué)院大樓、酒吧、公共空間等類型則需要特定的環(huán)境烘托出項(xiàng)目所要求達(dá)到的條件——項(xiàng)目用途、舒適度、使用頻率、使用年限等。因此，材料與色彩在我們工作中不僅僅起到裝飾性作用，而是用作設(shè)計(jì)特定環(huán)境的建筑手法。在建筑學(xué)框架內(nèi)，裝飾僅僅是臨時(shí)性的表層覆蓋物，會(huì)在使用過程中不斷變化。然而，作為整體設(shè)計(jì)的一部分，色彩與材料起到空間分割作用，會(huì)隨整個(gè)建筑項(xiàng)目存續(xù)，不會(huì)隨時(shí)間而發(fā)生變化。

10.您現(xiàn)在的工作重心在哪一部分？未來的設(shè)計(jì)生涯中，您認(rèn)為將面臨的新挑戰(zhàn)是什么？

我們對(duì)事務(wù)所的定位是向下一代傳授創(chuàng)作方法或方式。在經(jīng)過20年的設(shè)計(jì)實(shí)踐后，這對(duì)我們可謂是一個(gè)重大挑戰(zhàn)。新穎的思考方式能拉近我們與年輕一代的距離。我們不希望僅僅向世人介紹，我們是一間創(chuàng)辦于二十世紀(jì)九十年代的事務(wù)所，而是希望客戶能從我們的建筑作品中發(fā)現(xiàn)這一時(shí)代的印記。

公司以面向更廣闊的文化空間為發(fā)展方向，并在這一理念指導(dǎo)下開發(fā)不同項(xiàng)目，并在地區(qū)乃至國際市場(chǎng)進(jìn)行展示。我們的做法是通過電影（SADAR+VUGA XX）、刊物、知名國際展會(huì)作品展、公開演講和參與教學(xué)過程等多種方式，引發(fā)有關(guān)事務(wù)所如何進(jìn)行建筑設(shè)計(jì)實(shí)踐的深思和持續(xù)討論。此外，我們迫切希望設(shè)計(jì)出可積極融入城市基礎(chǔ)設(shè)施以及改變?nèi)藗冇^察和利用城市方式的項(xiàng)目。我們通過項(xiàng)目的介入，將原本中性的空間轉(zhuǎn)變?yōu)榫哂絮r明特色的場(chǎng)所，從而鼓勵(lì)和激發(fā)城市居民轉(zhuǎn)變對(duì)城市利用方式的認(rèn)知。我們尤其注重空間結(jié)構(gòu)的靈活安排，以便日后的居住者能夠?qū)ζ渥杂衫谩?/p>

最后一點(diǎn)是為居住者創(chuàng)造理想的居住環(huán)境，讓居住者能夠輕松的在城市中出行和生活，從而加強(qiáng)居住者對(duì)城市的認(rèn)同，以及接納和理解建筑本身傳遞的信息。

此外，我們通過舊物新用，將部分建筑遺址或材料重新利用，促成適應(yīng)性使用，避免空間被浪費(fèi)，減弱建筑對(duì)城市或周邊景觀的環(huán)境影響。最后，人口流動(dòng)和能源利用的主要發(fā)展趨勢(shì)將會(huì)是我們?cè)谖磥淼脑O(shè)計(jì)過程中面臨的主要挑戰(zhàn)。事務(wù)所將會(huì)對(duì)此類因素將如何影響我們的生活和出行方式，以及我們需要何種類型的空間等問題作出回應(yīng)。

1. Could you introduce the consistent design concept and design method of SADAR+VUGA?

Our architectural production can be defined as: intentionally imperfect and awkward, robust, and ambiguous, intentionally incoherent and contradictory, where a single architectural project can be described as both monumental and informal at the same time.

SADAR+VUGA acted on the international level since its inception but nevertheless designed the majority of their projects for Slovenia’s capital, Ljubljana. Daring to experiment with different architectural design concepts and their effects on larger urban changes the office consciously renounced having a specific style, a ‘signature’. As a result the office projects forego adhering to a homogeneous visual and formal language and style. Each of them is developed from a precise interpretation of client’s contextual,programmatic and pragmatic constraints. Instead of simply creating objects and spaces for pre formulated life-styles, the projects challenge our perception and trigger our new spatial experience.

2. How do you considerate both public and private in specific cases?

The private-public duality has been continuously questioned through our work. Even in collaboration with the private investor the project always tends to communicate with the public space – it is organized to emphasize a certain open area that is shared. In the private projects such areas are named semi-public space due to its limited accessibility. Such semi-public space takes various forms; it materializes in a plaza, a promenade or a city living room.

3. We know that you emphasize the individuality of the building, so how do you make a building to have its own characteristics, and how do you let the clients identify?

We never saw these projects we work on as solely our projects or the firm’s, but as ones that change the environment, and trigger a debate or discourse. We wanted criticism, and to in fluen cenot only our generation and younger architects but our clients' expectations of architecture.

The whole process of planning and building is based on communication. The client is directly involved in the process. He understands the ideas that we propose he follows the project development and he can intervene in different phases. This is very important because then the client knows what to expect and what is the most important is that he knows how he is going to use the house. That allows us for a more individual outcome of the project as opposed to the more generic if the client is unknown or uninvolved in the project. It is actually about the difference between the generic and the individual or specific.

4. We know that your firm has been established for 20 years, which is the most impressive project of yours?

Firstly, the office is highly attentive to each and every project - each project leans with the specific discourse and has its own significance. However the cornerstone projects that established the office at the architecture world map are certainly the Chamber of Commerce and Industry of Slovenia and the extension of the National Gallery, both won through open international competitions. As a result, the new office, quite unusually was founded on the demanding, public projects. On the other hand, projects like Sports Park Sto?ice that integrates a football stadium and a multi-purpose sports hall with a big shopping centre, covered by the artificial landscape of the recreational park are significant due to their complexity,both in scale and in the duration of the project development. The Sports Park Sto?ice was appropriated to a large extent since it won the open international competition in 1997 until its realization thirteen years later, in 2010.

However during the 20 years long history, the office learned that shifting economic and political conditions demand the eagerness to work with the projects of any scale or type as well as the flexible understanding of the tasks of architectural production. At the moment the o ffi ce focus is of international scope. In 2015 we designed the villas in Tieshanping Ecological Area (TEA) Chongqing, China that are currently under construction. Moreover the two projects won the international contents lately - the New Building for the study of Social Work in Ghent, Belgium is currently under construction, and the project of the Adaptation and Renovation of Home of Revolution in Nik?i?, Montenegro awaits the realization.

5. Could you introduce to our readers the culture of your homeland Slovenia, as well as the development of design and architecture?

Due to its geographical position between Italy and Austria, Slovenia is de fi ned by two cultural milieus.This particular duality between Mediterranean and continental culture affects all the aspects of our society leaving the most obvious impact on architecture. Historically, it also has contributed to the layout of the cities and the way we understand and inhabit a public space. The other, equally important architecture determinant is the climate context. Again Slovenia distinctive climate consists of four climate zones: the mountain area of the Alps in the northern part, the continental area in the center of the country, the Mediterranean area that borders to the Adriatic Sea at the south and the Pannonia Plain at the east. The joint of cultures and the dynamic climatic environment define our day to day context, our daily routine and the way we live and work.

6. How does Slovenia's regional culture affect your architectural design?

Our work correlates mainly with the international context. The ideas we play with, the ones that we communicate through our design answer the common questions that are posed by the practitioners around the world. We are interested to explore the themes of the private, semi-public and public, the individual and shared, specific and generic, as we find them relevant for our moment in time. On the other hand we have high awareness of the local context although we do not just tend to blend with the existing. Our architecture arises within the certain surroundings with the potential to reconstruct it in numerous aspects. The potential that architecture bears to unfit the existing inspires our work. The question that drives our research is how architectural means construct the highest quality of space that simultaneously changes the way people live.

7. How do you incorporate architecture into the city?

In the last fifteen years the development of the cities in Slovenia differs from the tendencies of development in China in the sense that the number of inhabitants in the city is constant; the city does not expand significantly, which results in decentralized, simultaneous development of the country regions.Caused by the inhabitants fl ow, the constant growth on its own produces complexity and clashed urban conditions. On the opposite, within the Slovenian cities, the urbanity is not granted - the architect has to work on construction of the urban context, by introducing density, intensifying the program, traffic connectivity, etc.

8. Your firm is also involved in residential buildings.Could you describe how to achieve poetic dwelling in architecture?

The work on residental buildings directs the office attention to the qualities of identity and atmosphere.One of the question that drives our residental design is how architecture helps inhabitant to understand and appropriate the space he is to inhabite, having in mind that there are several levels of identification –my city, my neigh bour hood, my building, my fl at, etc. The other question is how to integrate the necessity for adaptive use of space of the future residents and the architectural elements that contribute to the specific atmosphere - it is how to make a place specific and flexible/universal at once. Furthermore the atmosphere is built upon basic architectural means – the dimension of the flat, its section, the introduction of the light and the direction of the views.

9. How do you use materials and colors in interior space design?

The character of architecture, given by the materials and colors is built upon the type of the space – at the residential building the fl at conditions are to be as neutral as possible to allow individual interventions.Quite the opposite, the typologies that we developed over time like hotels, sports halls, academies, club houses, public spaces ask for very specific atmosphere to support the conditions from the project brief –the program intention, level of comfort, frequency of use, durability of use, etc. Thus, the role of materials and colors in our works is not merely decorative; both are treated as architectural means that design specific atmosphere. Within the frame of architecture, the decoration is just another temporal layer to be introduced; it is modified through usage. However being the part of the overall design, the colors and materials construct the effect in space meant to last as long as the architectural project, not to be changed over time.

10. What is the focus of your current work? What are the new challenges you think you will face in your future design career?

We see our office as introducing approaches or ways of creating to younger generations. That is a big challenge for us after 20 years of office production. To think in a fresh way that brings us closer to a young generation. We don’t want to say, O.K., we started in the 1990s and you can recognize that in our buildings.

The company course is directed toward wider cultural space; the practice develops projects and presents its work not only in the region but internationally. Our modus operandi is focused on continuous debate that reviews the process of how office practices architecture. The debate is initiated through various mediums: the movie SADAR+VUGA XX, the publications, the selections at the renowned international exhibitions, public presentations and the participation in teaching-learning process. Additionally we are eager to create the projects that actively interfere with the functioning of the city infrastructure and change the way that people see and use the city. Our interventions transform the neutral spaces into the places of a distinct character that encourages and activates the city inhabitants to change the perception of how place is used. We put a special effort into the flexible spatial organization that results into freedom of use for future inhabitants.

Last but not the least is the creation of optimal living environment where people orientate and function with ease, which supports the process of identification with the place and create the acceptance and the understanding of the messages that our architecture bears.

Furthermore, we are attentive to minimize the environmental impact of the building to its urban or landscape surroundings, by reusing the space in the innovative way, recycling the certain site or the material resulting into the adaptive use and no left over spaces. At last, the challenges that we will face in future design are certainly concerned with the leading trends in mobility and usage of energy. The o ffi ce is to answer on how these factors will impact the way we live, how we drive, which type of spaces will be required, etc.